Our Hollywood governor has a fine appreciation for drama, suspense, and blowing things up. I just wish he had an appreciation for happy endings.
We need the governor to find common ground instead of creating new divisions by demanding last-minute policy changes unrelated to budgeting. Take the proclamation of fiscal emergency he made yesterday. It demonstrates a use of creative license we expect from a team of Hollywood script writers, but not from a responsible governor. It shows a preference for fiction over fact.
The governor’s proclamation reads:
“WHEREAS California planned to borrow up to $6 billion through Reimbursement Warrants (commonly referred to as RAWs) to address part of the budget deficit, but this short-term borrowing is no longer an available option due to the recent decision of the federal government not to provide financial assistance or loan guarantees for this emergency, short-term borrowing.” (Emphasis added.)
The truth is the governor himself unilaterally revoked the authority necessary for the Controller to issue RAWs on June 11, 2009. See the governor’s letter here.
The governor’s proclamation also reads:
“WHEREAS On June 30, 2009, the Legislature failed to take action to pass a revised budget for fiscal years 2008-09 and 2009-10 to effectively address the unprecedented statewide fiscal crisis, thereby requiring billions of dollars in additional solutions.”
The truth is the governor actively recruited Senate Republicans to vote against the 3 bill package passed nearly unanimously by the Assembly which would have provided immediate cash relief to the state’s treasury. This maneuver cost the state an additional $7 billion. Finally, Democratic legislators bypassed the Republicans and passed a package of legislation by a majority vote which made deep cuts to services and altogether would have closed the entire deficit. When we sent the governor the first two bills worth $7.9 billion in spending reductions and $4.4 billion in revenue accelerations and enforcement, the governor vetoed them even though there were no new taxes.
California needs the governor to set aside political theatrics and help us get to a balanced budget. That’s the happy ending we are all waiting for.
Thursday, July 2, 2009
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64 comments:
You like happy endings too, Noreen?
I love happy endings! Usually costs me an extre $50.
"Finally, Democratic legislators bypassed the Republicans and passed a package of legislation by a majority vote which made deep cuts to services and altogether would have closed the entire deficit."
And raised taxes illegally. It violated the CA Constitution and would have been immediately challenged in court. The Howard Jarvis Tax Association (another of my "radical, terrorist sources") probably had the lawsuit already written.
Not to mention that Arnold TOLD you he was going to veto it. So you had to call his bluff?? Why did you feel the need to waste 48 of those precious hours you have been counting down?
"When we sent the governor the first two bills worth $7.9 billion in spending reductions and $4.4 billion in revenue accelerations and enforcement, the governor vetoed them even though there were no new taxes."
Again, he TOLD you he was going to veto them. Do you not listen?
Finally, part of the messages voters sent with the later Props was to STOP with the accounting gimmicks and FIX the problem. Forget "revenue acceleration" and CUT THE SPENDING. It's not that complex.
Now we are issuing IOUs because of you. For the bulk of the Taxanator's term in office you sent him budgets which spent whatever one time surplus existed due to the housing boom and used accounting gimmicks and borrowing to paper over a spending problem that you refused to address. Sadly, the Taxanator did not have the stones to veto them over and over again as he promised on the campaign trail.
Now the time has come to pay the piper. The surplus is LONG gone. No one will lend to you.
And fortunately, the Governor is fed up with accounting gimmicks.
Thank you for your updates. Since May, I have been trying to find a website to view the truth. I found you a few weeks ago. I have written the governor 3 times asking him to do his job as the legislature has done their job comin up with bipartisan budget plans. Of course there has to be cuts but there also has to be taxes in a time like this. How does he not understand that. I just wish we could take him out of office before he ruins California anymore. I am proud of our legislature. I am proud to be a 6th generation Californian. And I am proud to be a single mom going to CSUS to take my family out of poverty thanks to Calworks. I paid into the system, but life through me a curve ball and left me jobless and almost homeless. Now I am going to college to become an inspirational elementary school teacher, achieving 4.0's and pride along the way. I am so afraid that our governor is taking away opportunities for people in poverty to become successful leaders and life changers.
Wow! Theatrics in Sacramento? Who would have thought that our get Legislators could create sssooo much drama about our "poor" social net, Ca state workers,Your union bosses and any other bogus spending program you'll try to shove thru.Just admit defeat and apologize and then resign from office.You and your kind are DONE.You screwed up (hey! happy ending)thinking you could bambozalle the public with your useless retoric.
Revenue acceleration?? That's borrowing from the future isn't it? How exactly does that help now?? Isn't that yet another accounting gimmick?? But throw the Governor under the bus because he is resisting your interest in the humane cutting of cow tails and demanding you make reforms to how you spend the state's money? Noreen, no one but the poor (you know, the folks who receive ALL the services in California that are paid for by the rich and middle class) appreciates your work..wait, I'm sure there are some illegals and some union workers who will work for your re-election. You are the height of arrogance and the loath of the average Californian. I hope someday soon the Democrats who've ruined this state will actually ANSWER A QUESTION. You are such a liar its hard to stomach.
and of course people like karafaye above say there should be taxes because she doesn't pay them!! She is one of the people getting the services in this state - the services the rest of us pay for.
People getting IOUs: Tax payers who are owed refunds.
People NOT getting IOUs: State workers.
What a surprise.
No word yet on illegal aliens or welfare moms.
Oh..and Noreen. How are those $%&^ cow tails working??
Yeah, MUCH more important to debate &$^^&# cow tails rather than solving the budget crisis.
Greyhair,
What initiative is related to docking cow tails?? Because we know it couldn't possibly be the legislature screwing up.
Here is some good news from today's radical terrorist SD paper:
"Senate leader (Steinberg) said Democrats had given up any attempt to increase taxes on tobacco or establish a tax on oil extraction."
It does seem that raising the car tax AGAIN is still on their agenda.
One would have thought that in an economic crisis of the magnitude we are facing that government would have the sense to keep money in the hands of business and everyday citizens to achieve the very stability they claim they seek.
But the actions by our state legislature shows over and over in stunning arrogance that they are not really about finding economic balance, they are only about lining their pockets and union pockets with as much tax dollars as they can.
This mission is so intense on their part, that even during a historical economic crisis they cannot stop themselves. Even when pursuing these endeavors during times such as ours finally exposes their real agenda - they just cannot stop. In this sense, I suppose what is going on now is a good thing as people can finally see what this legislature stands for as the hardships many people now face from this economic downturn trumps the gobbly-goop do-nothing-but-raise-taxes-Insert-reason-here ideologs in Sacramento.
This legislature goes on and on as if the barriers to creating taxes and fees and the barriers to raising existing taxes and fees are the sole contributor to the crisis' the state faces rather than acknowledging the thousands and thousands of big pink polka dotted elephants in the room... such as the illegal alien problem, state worker salary problem, and pension benefits problem, to name a few.
So Noreen, if you’re feeling miffed because after all your effort to sway the opinion of our governor goes unnoticed and in fact his opinion strengthens in the opposite direction from yours – now you get a taste of what myself and many other posters on this forum feel when we try to persuade you… we get nothing but a continual rampage on your part to continue down a road nobody wants to travel on.
Truly amazing.
Noreen,
You have my personal permision to cut....cut education programs with 50% dropout rates, governemnt pensions (the rest of us depend on 401K's to which we have to contribute), unionized homecare without oversight that have untold fraud sans investigation, the list goes on and on. All you haver to do is look, and you will see lots of places to reduce. How about fixing roads, improving the business climate and reducing sales tax to stimulate the economy.
"This mission is so intense on their part, that even during a historical economic crisis they cannot stop themselves."
They dont WANT to stop. If they stop, they don't get re-elected because the union has run ads STATING that if Dems don't raise taxes then they WILL be targeted in the primaries. But I don't hear Bass complaining about THAT being terrorism. It's different when it's her Union Bosses doing the threatening?
And they won't get their sinecures- garbage boards and water boards- when they are termed out. Or they won't get union support to run for some OTHER government office. Because these people know nothing except to suck from the public teat.
And they won't have the unions tossing money into their campaign coffers to use for "gifts to staffers", taking them on junkets and sending them to Africa and Europe to "study global warming".
Because when Noreen is termed out, you don't really think she will get a REAL job do you??
You don't REALLY think she will give up the lifestyle she has worked so hard to attain at tax payer expense do you?
Dear. Ms. Evans,
Speaking of theatrics in politics, I was a theater major in college. What you are engaging in is what we call “Melodrama”. That’s the genre that relies on 19th century stereotypes – the helpless damsel in distress being harassed by the mustachioed villain. The problem with this genre is that it has fallen out of favor in America. We don’t like people who sit there on stage and cry about how they are being victimized. The audience doesn’t want to see a victim try the same thing over and over again with the same sad results. Which is, unfortunately, what your blog entries are doing. We like people who take action. Who get things done. When they fail, they get up and try something else. That’s what Californians like to see in entertainment, but ALSO in their politicians. It’s called the American spirit. When we fail, we dust ourselves off, and then try a new strategy until we succeed.
Nobody buys you in the role of Sweet Polly Purebread while Governor Snidely Whiplash ties you to the train tracks and holds the state for ransom. Ms. Evans, you need to flip the script, and I’m here as a helpful citizen to offer my suggestion.
I work in a client oriented business. People hire me and my crew for our expertise. But because it is a creative field, clients want to offer their suggestions and direction. Sometimes, the direction they give seems wrong to us. It doesn’t sound like the right thing to do. But we can’t tell them that. Their egos are too big. So, what we have to do is show them what they asked for, and then show them our alternative, and let them compare and decide between the two. Most times, our version is better and the client realizes it. But about 10% of the time, we realize along the way that the client was right, and that their idea was better, it just needed some refinement and tweaking.
So here we are. You are not going to make any progress just telling the Governor that your plan is better. As I pointed out in a previous comment, the power is all on his side and in a head-butting contest, he will win. So, now that your plan has failed (twice), try doing it his way. Put together a budget on his terms. You don’t have to put it to a vote on the floor, just throw it out there for review and comparison.
But here’s how you flip the script. Don’t do that thing you do where you throw a budget out without giving the legislators time to read and study it. Make it publicly available to not only the legislators, but also the general public. Let us have a few days to read and digest it. And then, your clients (the people of California, the taxpayers) will let you know which option we prefer.
So far, the people of California aren’t interested in the show you want to produce. The ticket price is too high. This is probably why the Governor’s approval rating is still twice as high as the Assembly’s. We like his show better than yours.
Ms. Evans, the California Citizen's Compensation Committee has twice given you some direction. It’s what a studio executive would call “giving a note”. They’ve cut elected officials salaries, and cut your benefits. They’ve clearly laid out where they want this story to end up. It’s time to put your ego aside and try it. Try enacting the Governor’s policy changes. Try not raising fees. The only way Californians are going to have a happy ending is if we can afford the show, and still have some money left over for dinner.
Mark
Yes, it's more expensive to fund prisons and pay wages here than in, oh say, Florida. Do you want to live in Florida? I don't. Transfer a Florida guard to California and pay him a Florida wage, and he'll be asking for food stamps.
And yes, *some* state wages have been negotiated in bad faith, i.e. prison guards. But California is one of the most expensive states to live in, so comparison have to be done carefully (and statistics can very easily lie). And the state government doesn't decide those costs, the market does.
State employees enjoy benefits and wages that USED to be the standard for everyone. The fact is that we are now in a rush to a lower standard of living. And employees (rightly imo) are fighting it tooth and nail. My philosophy is to do things that will lift folks up to a decent standard of living, not to help folks rush to the bottom. So if your pay/benefits aren't as good as a state employees, how do we/you improve your situation? Not, "let's drag everyone else down. However, frankly the more likely scenario of most of those that make of that 1/3 fringe is "I got mine baby so screw you".
Conservative thinking has been working steadily to destroy the first middle class in history ... in the U.S. since WWII. Government programs are largely responsible for counteracting the natural greed of capitalism. I don't want capitalism. I don't want socialism. I want them to dance together for the most good. And that hasn't been happening in the last 25 years (but it's about to change).
Is it so wrong (given the current environment) that the SEIU fight for influence? Why don't I hear those on the right criticizing the Boswell family for example (own most of the Central Valley's water rights and have destroyed much of the environment there), or Chevron, or _________? Until we have reform dealing with special interests, why should the liberal interests altruistically step aside?
These issues need to be dealt with and cuts need to be made. But you can't cut enough in this crisis to balance the budget without materially furthering a huge decline in the qualtiy of life in our state. And to say that Democrats (including Ms Evans) haven't advocated cuts is plain wrong. The state budgets of the last several years have included a lot of cuts. And those who aren't on the highest ladders of society are seeing the deletrious effects of those cuts. And aside from the moral issues, do you honestly think that you can "starve the beast" turning California into a third world state and not suffer some very serious consequences?
To me the current crisis is rooted in three elements. 1) a structural problem in budget governance (the 2/3rd requirement, prop 13 issues, campaign financing, out of control initiative process and the like). 2) Number one has left California vulnerable to the overall national financial disaster, brought on in no small part by out-of-control financial corporations and lack of government oversight, and 3) a broken Republican party in California in which moderation has been eliminated in favor of ideologues who are trapped.
You say cut, cut deep, and cut now. I say make a compromise of cuts and tax increases. The most liberal would say, only tax increases. So who's the moderate?
Finally a note on your words to Ms. Evans on "melodrama". Unfortunately the process, the governor and the broken Republican party have now made the whole situation a political brawl with all factions needing melodrama to sell their story. The right-wing noise machine is plenty loud in California, though thankfully I don't have to listen to them.
Again, the "wise" voting public you speak of in discussing the 2/3rds requirement simply won't tune-in unless the rhetoric is racheted up. I can easily point to a lot of melodrama by the fiscal scolds, some of it on these very pages. It's the nature of the beast .... and again yet another argument for why representative democracy is the answer, not the problem.
Representative Evans:
" Take the proclamation of fiscal emergency he made yesterday. It demonstrates a use of creative license we expect from a team of Hollywood script writers, but not from a responsible governor. It shows a preference for fiction over fact. ..."
Ok, lets take that proclamation and take a closer look at it. Then only "creative license" that I can observe is that of laying the blame on the "global recession" instead of at your feet. You and too many of the rest of the state legislation seem to believe that by demonizing this governor, you can obfuscate your own responsibilities.
Can we get on with it? Can you go ahead and make the cuts, stop the flagrant spending, put the state "work force" on a one week's "vacation" per month until the deficit is resolved?
Representative Evans:
" ... The truth is the governor actively recruited Senate Republicans to vote against the 3 bill package passed nearly unanimously by the Assembly which would have provided immediate cash relief to the state’s treasury. This maneuver cost the state an additional $7 billion. ..."
I might offer a slight correction to your statement thus:
" ... The truth is the governor actively recruited Senate Republicans to vote against the 3 bill tax increase package passed nearly unanimously by the Assembly which would have provided immediate taxpayer cash relief to the state’s treasury. This maneuver cost the state an additional $7 billion, but saved the state taxpayers a like amount and more. ... "
GET A GRASP ON REALITY. NO MORE TAXES PERIOD. IN FACT CUT TAXES. GET OUT OF BED WITH THE UNIONS. CUT STATE JOBS AND PROGRAMS.
QUIT WITH THE BLAME GAME. THE GOVENOR IS RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG.
REUEL
Wow, methinks some people with a whole lot of time on their hands and a long list of simplistic talking points are threatened by the clear arguments you present!
Thanks for your efforts, even if the blog seems to be attracting psychos the way chum attracts sharks!
"Yes, it's more expensive to fund prisons and pay wages here than in, oh say, Florida. Do you want to live in Florida? I don't. Transfer a Florida guard to California and pay him a Florida wage, and he'll be asking for food stamps. "
Absurd. The latest figures I have seen are that it now costs 46K in CA (up from 42K) and 24K in FL. FL isn't exactly Iowa or ND in its cost of living yet you can somehow justify a cost almost TWICE as much to house the prisoners here. The person who said ship them all to MI was not far off.
"And yes, *some* state wages have been negotiated in bad faith, i.e. prison guards. "
Ya think?? You mean they didn't earn that 37% (or 30%- whatever the number was) raise that Davis gave them? How about those 100% pensions? Surely, THEY were negotiated in good faith.
Oh right.. we had one state worker pipe up how he doesn't get that so it must not exist for ANYONE.
" And the state government doesn't decide those costs, the market does"
Ridiculous. The unions are SETTING the costs via the captive legislature. Where do you think all those state workers are going to make anywhere NEAR the kind of wages and benefits they make now? They make MORE working for the state in wages than the private sectore. Add in benefits and it's an EVEN wider gap.
If they think they can do better in the private sector, PLEASE let them bail. Doesn't seem to be happening thus, "I can't make it. Tax everybody".
Is there a rush for private industry to hire a bunch of state workers? Somehow I doubt it.
Grayhair,
Sorry. I just don’t buy your arguments. The whole ‘conservative thinking is destroying America’ song just doesn’t ring true. Conservative ideas are what MADE this country strong. Work hard. Be self sustaining. Spend wisely. Save for rainy days. Work for the betterment of your children, not yourself. Children should be studying and doing homework, not making more children. Build strong community ties, around shared cultural values. That’s what made America great. That’s what we are missing now.
With all due respect, your arguments harken back to the hippy thinking of the 60s and 70s, which I frankly think greatly contributed to the worsening of society.
Look around. California is already becoming the third world. And it isn’t because our budgets are being cut (by the way, reducing an increase isn’t the same as a cut). It’s because our state’s policies, and the liberal ideals our leaders advocate, do everything possible to marginalize the idea of saving money, working hard, common cultural values, language, and even common sense. We provided such a wide safety net, that it encouraged people not to work hard towards success. We made it too easy for them to live off the taxpayer permanently. Even now, there is discussion in our government about just paying moms to stay home, instead of paying for childcare for working parents. We’ve given up on encouraging people to get out and make a living for themselves.
We lionize single mothers, even teen ones, despite all evidence that teen parenting is the surest way to doom your self to poverty. We stopped encouraging immigrants to assimilate, and so now some choose NOT to think of California as home, and treat our neighborhoods accordingly. Many think of it as just a temporary job location, and so send most of their earnings back to their native country, instead of using it to build a better life and home here. In schools, we put the emphasis on self esteem instead of science and math, and our students lag behind much of the developed world. We derided religion, and fought against its influence in society, and lost the shared cultural values and personal restraint that churches foster. Instead, we have created the ‘me’ generation of self absorbed cry-babies.
I utterly reject that structural problems such as Prop 13 and the 2/3 rules are at the heart of our current situation in California. The idea that Prop 13 has handicapped our revenue stream has been widely debunked by anyone who does the math. Repealing that now would cause a housing collapse and an exodus of businesses and taxpayers from the state that would make today’s economy look like a little bump in the road.
The heart of the problem is bad prioritizing, failed hippy thinking in our leadership, and poor fiscal choices. Period. And its time to fix that.
You say make a compromise and do both tax increases and cuts. I wholeheartedly agree. But we already did the tax increase part. The largest in the nation’s history. We’ve implemented that part of the strategy already. We’ve made that compromise. So now it’s your turn. Take the tax hikes that exist, and figure out how to work within that. THEN if we all agree we’re not happy, we can talk about taxing more. But your side hasn’t done their part yet.
"Wow, methinks some people with a whole lot of time on their hands and a long list of simplistic talking points are threatened by the clear arguments you present!
Thanks for your efforts, even if the blog seems to be attracting psychos the way chum attracts sharks!"
Personal attacks FOR THE WIN! But thanks for playing...
"Conservative ideas are what MADE this country strong. Work hard. Be self sustaining. Spend wisely. Save for rainy days. Work for the betterment of your children, not yourself. Children should be studying and doing homework, not making more children. Build strong community ties, around shared cultural values. That’s what made America great. That’s what we are missing now."
Wow. That's just a whole lot of crazy talk.
/Sarcasm off
As the person who repeated Jennifer Granholm's proposal about transferring prisoners to Michigan, I'd like to quickly repeat my proposals. I'll make it fast - anyone interested in reading the full thing can look at the July 1 thread.
1. Lay off as many of the 235,000 CA state employees under the Gov's control as is reasonably feasible.
2. Lay off the Governor's entire staff, aside from those whose salaries he wishes to cover himself.
3. Lay off all of the legislators' paid staff, with all salaries from this calendar year to be paid back to the taxpayers by each legislator. Same rule about having them pay for any staff they wish to keep.
4. Reduce all legislators and executive staff (including the Governor) pay by 15% retroactive to January 1.
5. Have all legislators and executive staff renounce all expense payments and perqs, and repay all such payments retroactive back to January 1, 2008.
6. Transfer as many prison inmates as possible to Michigan per Granholm.
7. Nationalize all state parks.
8. Make the payment of salaries to legislators and Governor contingent on their passing a budget, ie doing their jobs.
9. Lay off all paid consultants and repay their salaries to the taxpayers, retroactive to January 1, 2008.
10. Cancel all state projects not deemed to be emergency measures.
11. Agree to no more public financing of election campaigns in this state.
12. Stop all funding provided to private corporations, and require repayment of all such funds retroactive to January 1, 2009.
This would also involve having the legislature return to part-time status, to save more money.
I honestly don't think these are that radical, considering the state's economic condition.
One additional note: While my proposals are for the deepest of cuts as possible, I am basing this on the fact that the state simply doesn't have the money to pay these costs. And the citizens of the state have made clear that they will not pay higher taxes during a deep recession.
As for the staff cut proposal, I note that our legislators have as many as 9 assistants working in their offices, in addition to their other perks. We simply can't afford this luxury, and it's not unreasonable to ask legislators (who are hopefully returning to part-time status next year anyway) to answer their own phone calls and emails. The point of going to the state capital was supposed to be that of public service - they work for us.
If we make these deep but appropriate cuts, then citizens like karafaye will actually be served better and the state will function more efficiently.
Another genius post by Mark.
"Even now, there is discussion in our government about just paying moms to stay home, instead of paying for childcare for working parents"
Absolutely true. Happening in LA. Hard to believe that this discussion is even taking place- and yet it is.
Combine that with the stat that more than 30% of the welfare cases in the nation are in CA and what do you have?
Dear Noreen,
You are a super genius. Your contributions are so eloquent and well reasoned compared with the angry lying reactionaries here spoiling your good work. A pity, as your tireless efforts for all Californians and citizens of the universe are well respected and admired by those of us who care for our fellow human beings and non-human beings.
These simpletons only see in black or white, not only because they are racists, but because they have never worked for the public good, only for their greedy self interests and for profit. So evil. Evil is bad. You are good. You are not evil.
Can you please get me at ticket for Michael Jackson's memorial service?
Love,
Octomom
Well Mark, I thought we could have a dialog. But it seems not. Right on cue, you pick out stuff to attack, ignore other stuff and concede nothing. Same ole tactics.
Conservatives have the market cornered on values? Nonsense. Hippy thinking? As DebateMe says, "personal attack for the win!". Conservatives built this country and made it strong. Please. And finally, the old saw about those nasty illegals and welfare queens oh my!. The stereotypes are rampant and only thinly veil the racism. Fact is California's economy would shut down without the cheap illegal labor.
And ironically, all the problems you point out are at their WORST in the most conservative parts of California. And nationally? The most conservative states rank the lowest on measures of education, health, income and taking federal tax dollars.
Ahhhh, just forget it. The simpleton thinking as exemplified on this blog commentary is astounding. Thankfully it's not the majority opinion. And yet it these attitudes prove again that representative democracy is a superior way to govern as opposed to opening the floodgates of wingnuteria.
"And finally, the old saw about those nasty illegals and welfare queens oh my!. The stereotypes are rampant and only thinly veil the racism. Fact is California's economy would shut down without the cheap illegal labor."
Greyhair,
They are costing us somewhere between 3 (Taxanator's number) and 12 (FAIR's number) billion. That is billion with a B dollars per year.
My sofa cushions have been picked clean already so why don't you and Noreen tip yours over to pay for this.
Or maybe you could trot out the absurd argument that illegals are actually a net POSITIVE for California's economy.
No, you are back to the old "lettuce would be 10.00 a head without illegals" and "Americans wouldn't do any of those construction jobs that illegals have taken from them."
Still think that with reported CA unemployment well over 10 and actual # probably in the 14-15% range? Yeah, me either.
What happened on all those "day without an illegal alien"? The world stopped just like it did when Noreen's hourly counter reached zero? NO. It didn't. But you alarmists would have us believe it did.
Just like California didn't burn down when Prop 1A when down in flames. Just like people are NOT dying because the Repubs located their cojones and denied Bass and Steinberg ANOTHER tax increase on top of the largest one in history.
Keep on trying the scare tactics if you like. No one is buying them anymore.
Yeah, we are racists if we want people to OBEY THE LAW. Just like we are terrorists if we exercise our constitutional rights. Who was pulling the ad hominmen attacks again? Was it the right or the left?
"it's not the majority opinion."
WRONG!! CHeck the results for Prop 1A to Prop 1E. Check the Rasmussen poll. Or just keep your head in the sand, Ostrich Man.
Greyhair,
I did concede some things. I conceded that we needed to pay higher taxes, and have already done so. I conceded that the initiative process needs some reform, but not to the degree that you think it does. I did not make a personal attack, I merely pointed out that your arguments are similar to a belief system espoused a few decades ago.
It’s so easy to jump to conclusions, isn’t it? So easy to assume I’m a simpleton, just because I have a different point of view. You assume I’m a racist. Except that I’m in a bi-racial marriage. You assume I’m anti-immigrant, except that most of my immediate family are immigrants (including my wife and daughter). It’s easy to assume that I am cold and heartless and have no charity, except that I believe charity is the responsibility of private citizens, not the government. I am on call one week each month with the Red Cross. I have run shelters for people who have lost their homes, and stood by firemen all night to offer them water and food during brush fires. When I was younger and in better shape, I was a Guardian Angel, patrolling some of the worst neighborhoods in Southern California to help keep people safer. Because I believe that individuals and private organizations do a better job of helping people than government. And I’m right. Because private citizens will offer a hand when people need help, and will offer a kick in the behind when people need motivation. Government always seems to forget that 2nd part.
The problem is, I’m not a simpleton. I think like a chess player. I look at the moves our legislature makes, and then figure out what’s going to happen 10 moves down the line. Raise sales taxes, people buy less. Revenue stays the same, but our retail and manufacturing sector suffer. Make it easier to be on welfare than other states, and we’ll find ourselves attracting the poor of the nation, instead of just helping our own. Cut prop 13, and cause such a violent turnover in both the private and commercial properties market that our economy will be ruined for decades.
Our legislators, on the other hand, are thinking like Tic Tac Toe. Just planning at one move at a time, and always ending with a stalemate.
Regarding illegal immigration. My issue isn’t as much about the legality of being here, as much as motive. It is an undeniable fact that people who immigrate here for the express purpose of making the US their permanent home for their entire family assimilate more, and contribute more to the well being of their neighborhoods, their schools, and their churches. People who come here for a quick economic fix, without their families, and with no intention of staying permanently, do not contribute to the community to the same degree, and have less intention of assimilating. This is as true for then Indian software engineer on an H1B visa, and the son of a Saudi oil prince on a student visa, as it is for illegal immigrants. I cherish and honor the many Armenian, Korean, Chinese, Philipino, and yes, even Mexican citizens who came to live here permanently. But our lax enforcement of immigration laws and sanctuary policies have encouraged too many people to come here for the quick economic fix, without respecting or wanting to be a part of our culture. And any rational person would agree that having a significant percentage of the population who do not respect the culture and rule of law in a country is a bad thing. This is true for any country.
And finally, please get your head out of the sand. If you don’t believe me, then believe poll after poll after poll, which all reaffirm that the majority opinion is to NOT raise taxes, and to make due with what we are paying now.
Oh, and by the way, Grayhair, my family was homeless for a year. My father lost his job when I was 12, and we spent the year traveling across the country living in cheap hotels while he looked for work. Eventually, my mother and I had to go to Mexico and Guatemala for six months where we could live cheaper, until my father found work.
So I know a little something about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. And I have no illusions about welfare queens. I know who the needy really are. And I have a perspective on how to help them that's based on experience, not liberal propoganda.
"The simpleton thinking as exemplified on this blog commentary is astounding."
Taken directly from the Liberal 101 book, if they don't agree with you, just tell them they're stoopid.
Oh Grayhair, thank goodness the simpleton thinking on this blog is the majority opinion - you must be living in San Francisco where the plastic bag is illegal - yeah, that's smart legislation. Your arrogance and ideology is matched only by the great Noreen Evans. I am sorry, but I am not willing to pay more taxes because I don't want to increase the quality of life for the state unions workers. I want it to decrease to match the rest of the state who work in the private sector. What a rarified viewpoint - that the state worker's pay and benefits are what everyone should enjoy?? Lord, in a recession?? NO! The state workers are the laziest in the state and their guaranteed pay for jobs not necessarily welldone, no -- not in the best interests of business. Its pure stupidity to suggest otherwise. But again, you guys must be from San Francisco to have these opinions, you think that alcoholic adulturer freak would be a good governor! The guy who suggested the state workers give up their perks and the legislators give back their pay raises!! They don't deserve them. No where in business is someone rewarded simply because it is in the contract - union workers bring out the worst in American workers - sorry, lazy - lousy work ethic - American workers cannot be guaranteed a salary and benefit package as exemplified by the California state workers in Sacramento - they bleed the system..they take advantage -- results are obvious, the system is broken, it needs to be fixed. As long as arrogant idiots like Noreen are elected officials, we will continue the slide into the toilet.
My sides hurt from laughing. You and your "terrorist" friends are baffoons. Let me say this again, and understand lady, you and your cohorts work for the taxpayers-not the other way around. We dont want taxes and stop calling us names (you,Bassett hound and everyone else) just because we dont follow whatever you say. Increase fucking taxes IS NOT the answer, except for you to keep on living in the life to which you've become accustomed. You dont give a damn about anything but that. live within your means.
Hey Noreen, open up that non profit charity so you can take care of all the welfare people yourself.
Funny
You go to the local mini market to buy gasoline. Perhaps there's an "illegal" mopping the floor and you get your panty hose all twisted. All the while you're pumping gas provided by a oil company that eats you for lunch, paying with a credit card provided by a company that eats you for lunch with fees and usury interest rates.
You go buy food produced by illegal aliens provided (wink wink) by brokers to large multinational corporations who give a rip about employees. Those companies (Archer Daniel Midlands anyone?) provide you processed foods with so much salt, sugar, corn syrup and other crap that it's literally killing us.
You purchase insurance, maybe for employees. But be careful. Should you ever really need it, be prepared to be nickel and dimed to death by the insurance company, that is if they don't "recision you" for using a comma instead of a period on your application. All the while, you watch Faux news on your imported Chinese TV via usury rates paid for cable
I could go on and on. But it's funny to see the venom about the possibility of paying your state government to do the job that YOU have told to do (more so than any other state), Ironically, it's that very government who could do the most to really save you money. But hey, we don't need government. Right?
I watch each year as the private jets swarm the sky's bringing the real power players to Bohemian Grove. These folks aren't just singing kumbaya. They're laughing their asses off, celebrating as you fiscal scolds do the bidding for them. Keeping you fired up about government keeps you off their fannies.
The modern conservative movement remind me of dogs at the dog track. The dogs run after a mechanical rabbit rabidly pursuing the prize .. all the while oblivious to who's really running the machinery. So just keep on listening to Bob and Dave, Sam and Phil or whatever the hell their names are along with Faux News. They need you to keep up the heat on government! It's great for ratings and business.
To Mark.
I make no more assumptions about you than you make about me. You'll just have to trust me that I'm no stereotype ... anymore than you are. My first vote was for Nixon, I come from dirt poor Okies who were roundly discriminated against. I have a large income derived largly from personally managing an investment portfolio. On paper, I should be your prototypical Republican.
Except I've lived life and seen the mentally retarded guy, abandoned by relatives, who gets a visit from a state subsidized home care provider to insure he hasn't burned himself up cooking. We could all tell stories to support our POV.
Your efforts are quite laudable. We all should be so socially responsible. But you know what? The vast majority are not.
If it were a perfect world and we all lived in Mayberry RFD, we wouldn't need government services. But businesses are not run by local shopkeepers, and aunt Bea doesn't do the cooking from her garden. Many MANY companies have a diminishing sense of social responsibility. The larger and more complex the society, the more important a government counterbalance becomes. And these functions COST MONEY. You'all have been sold a bill of goods that government is wasteful. I have worked in many different industries and companies, and I can promise you that there are quite often as bad or worse.
I know. But I don't have to buy from private businesses. Sure. You have a choice between being ripped off by Exxon or Chevron, or having Blue Cross or Aetna drop you like a hot rock if you get sick. Some choice.
We will likely never agree on the solution. And due to stupid, ancient populist laws, our lawmakers can't either.
Finally. I slightly know Noreen Evans. I know enough about her to know that the invective directed at her personally is completely wrong, vicious and disgusting. I don't care if you disagree with her, it's disgusting and those who do it should be ashamed of their bad behavior, no matter their ideology.
To Becca's World:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/08/10/plastic_bags/
Enjoy!
:)
Mark,
Your comments about chess vs tic tac toe are something I've thought about.
I call it the General Theory of Liberalism. Liberals don't understand incentives. They actually believe that if you raise taxes 10% on small businesses, you'll get 10% more revenue. Their little minds are incapable of understanding that productive people and businesses are fleeing the state due to taxes, regulations, and cost of living.
"I could go on and on. But it's funny to see the venom about the possibility of paying your state government to do the job that YOU have told to do (more so than any other state), Ironically, it's that very government who could do the most to really save you money. But hey, we don't need government. Right"
There is no "possibility" of paying. Every Friday I PAY. When I put gas in my car to get to Friday, I PAY. WHen I replace the shoes that have holes in them, I PAY. Because I had the audacity to buy a home, I PAY. Because I had the audacity to buy a car, I PAY. And if Noreen had her way, I would pay AGAIN.
And again thanks to Noreen, this year I pay 1100.00 more than last year. And if she had her way I would pay more this month than last month. And when that wasn't enough to satisfy her union bosses, I would pay STILL more. Where is the limit to what I should pay? THERE IS NONE.
We pay, and pay, and PAY. So the "possibility" of paying is an absolute joke.
No. I did NOT tell the government to do this. I did not the state to hire 48 workers a day for the past 10 years. I did not tell the state to double in size the past 10 years. I did not tell the state to give prison guards a 30%+ raise. I did not tell the state to give workers gold plated health care that they pay nothing for. I did not tell the state to lavish services on illgal aliens. I did not tell the state to give the legislators 1000s in car allowances.
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/state&id=6868695
If by "you", you mean the unions and the legislators they buy and governors too weak to stand up to them, then you would be correct.
No, I certainly don't need the government we have now. I don't need all 235,000 of them. I don't need in home services that is riddled with fraud. And more importantly... for what I do need, I am MASSIVELY over-charged and have NO choice to pay. AND am compared to plane hijackers who killed 3000 Americans if I complain about it.
Oh wait.. "study after study" has shown that I garner the vast majority of state services, right?? YEAH RIGHT.
Greyhair,
If you had said that we aren't taxed ENOUGH then I could actually respect that. I would vehemently disagree but I could respect at least it.
But to pretend that we don't PAY AT ALL just makes you a cartoon.
"You'all have been sold a bill of goods that government is wasteful. I have worked in many different industries and companies, and I can promise you that there are quite often as bad or worse."
The difference is that governments collect their "revenues" BY FORCE. If you don't like a company being wasteful then don't buy their product. How do I opt out of Noreen's product? I want to stop buying it.
Cretin,
You can opt out by moving out of state.
Sad, but that's the best option for many businesses and families.
Given the conditions over the last few years, many people are already moving out of state. California has actually shown a net loss in the last couple of years, and the large tax increase this year appears to have encouraged many more people to take their businesses and homes to another state.
I anticipate seeing an acceleration of people fleeing California as the situation continues to deteriorate. If the state legislature continues to try to play shell games with the budget and if it tries to raise taxes even further, I believe we'll see a lot of people voted out of office next year, not to mention those that are certain to be recalled this year. I'm hopeful that when the legislature returns to part-time status next year, it will be more efficient with its time and energy, and more mindful of its constituents.
Greyhair,
You and I agree on one more thing. I agree that the personal attacks and foul language aimed at Ms. Evans is vicious and inappropriate. I know nothing about her personally, but I have no reason to believe she is anything other than an excellent mother, a pillar of the community, and an all around nice person.
My only criticism is with the job she is doing in her leadership role with the budget of California. In that respect, I think she is prioritizing badly and making poor choices.
So while you will see me criticize her job performance, and the choices that have been made by the Assembly in general, you will not see me making personal attacks or using obscene language. That’s not constructive. And I agree the people doing it should be ashamed.
Happy Independence Day, Reenie.
You might want to go back and read about the nation's history. Surprisingly, it doesn't have anything to do with career politicians, six-figure garbage board posts, ultra-rich state employee pensions, or welfare for illegal aliens.
STOP THIS COMIC OPERA AND GET REAL.
YOU WILL NOT GET ANY MORE TAXES OUT OF US.
CUT THE SEIU EMPLOYEE SALARIES AND PENSIONS BY 15%.
CUT BENEFITS FOR ILLEGALS IN HALF.
CUT THE STATE PRISON BUDGET BY 25%
CUT THE TEACHER UNION SALARIES BY 20%
NOW THE BUDGET IS BALANCED !
YOU WILL HAVE TO FORGET NEW TAXES.
TIME TO GET REAL AND STOP THE STALEMATE CHARADE.
Mark,
Why the queasiness about personal attacks and foul language?
Reenie has driven this state to the edge of bankruptcy and caused immeasurable devastation to countless families.
While I haven't engaged in name-calling myself, I think that everything Reenie has been called is an understatement.
I find all that melodrama by Ms. Evans about x hours until we're over the edge hillarious.
Not a post since July 2nd. Guess this crisis isn't big enough for Noreen and the rest to work thru the holiday weekend.
Welcome to Day 5 of "the world stopping".
I have not slept in 5 days as I have been on "Death Watch". So far, everyone in my neighborhood is ok, but I know that will change as the world is indeed over. People will dropping dead in the streets any second now.
Noreen and Greyhair said so.
Dear Greyhair.
You said "The stereotypes are rampant and only thinly veil the racism."
I do not see one mention of any one race, color or any other personal distinction. Why is it that you have nothing to back up your claim the economy would collapse without the cheap labor. How? Where?
You have to understand that the majority of us are tired of you automatically turning to "racism" as your "kill shot" it has no effect.
I am a white man with a Latino wife and two half Latino kids. I am not a racist. It is just not fair that my wife’s family fallowed all the rules and became PROUD AMERICANS. and you and your kind just want to ignore the fact that Californians are agents ILLEGAL immigration and I can't emphasize enough ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL, for some reason people like you can not see that we are talking about ILLEGAL,
Here is a wild example of what I am talking about. Greyhair, to you and others with your views these are just poor people that are just trying to make a better life for themselves and there families. Ok now if someone kicks down your front door and steals all of you valuables and you find out the that person is going to sell it so he can feed his family then that would make it perfectly fine. You would not call the police and report it. You would simply sit back and let it happen again and again.
I didn't think so
Our state has an obligation to take care of LEGAL Californians first. Other LEGAL Americans next, and they just aren’t doing it.
I agree with Debate Me. The governor and the state legislature should have spent this weekend working in the state capitol to get the budget done. The people receiving IOUs from our state right now deserve better than to see the people who put them in that situation apparently not caring about what is going on.
Jeff Ackerman has an interesting column where he points out that Texas state legislators work part time and are paid $7,200 for their service in generating a state budget. There's no reason that the state of California cannot take a similar approach when the government returns to part-time status. And the fact that the legislators refuse to put in the extra time when it is really needed only points up the need to return them to the real world in which the rest of us live.
noneya - you are correct to point out what you did. Today's liberal happily mutates any mention of fiscal rational into a 'you are a racist' argument (it reminds me of those NetFlix commercials where the questions and answers have nothing to do with each other).
When they're not doing that, they quickly resort to the plain old 'you're a big dummy head.' Remember that from the 2nd grade?
The stunning part of it all is that today's liberals, the self-proclaimed champions of 'freedom of expression,' are quick to engage in vicious personal attacks when you don't agree with their views.
DebateMe I couldn’t agree more.
One thing that I can be proud of is if a republican gets out of line and lie, cheat, and steal. We have no problem in calling them out and stringing them up by their short and curly. The dems on the other hand never criticize there own. They would fallow them right over the cliff and take the rest of us with them. Well bull sh!# I’m not going over.
"One thing that I can be proud of is if a republican gets out of line and lie, cheat, and steal. We have no problem in calling them out and stringing them up by their short and curly."
I agree. It's why I changed from the Republican Party to Independent. The last 8 years of Republican Leadership has little to do with conservatism.
Notice the lefties on this board like to trash conservatism because of the train wreck Republican leadership has caused of late... much like pointing out Christianity has no merit whatsoever because some big-name-TV-christian figurehead gets caught watching pornography or extorting his church. Conservative ideals (self reliance, small government, capitalism etc.) don't suddenly become any less viable simply because the current crop of leaders to represent such ideals are morons.
"The dems on the other hand never criticize there own. They would fallow them right over the cliff and take the rest of us with them. Well bull sh!# I’m not going over."
Before the May vote I may have agreed with that entirely. But I think regular worker-bee-taxpayer-democrates have had enough as well. I think most democrates and republicans have had enough of the tax and spend government that is California.
W.C.:
You wrote: "Mark, Why the queasiness about personal attacks and foul language?"
It's quite simple, really. I don't believe that any constructive discussion has ever started with calling somebody a B@#CH.
I think this country's greatest political achievements have occurred when the two parties at least made a show of treating each other with respect. There was a time when the parties referred to their counterparts as “the loyal opposition”. This term implies that whatever differences you might have in terms of priorities and policy, you at least acknowledge that both sides are loyal Americans, who are trying to look out for the country's best interests in their own way..
Today, both sides are guilty of calling the other side 'terrorists' for expressing counter opinions (yes, I'm looking at you, Ms. Bass and Ms. Coulter). The end result of such polarizing language is that both sides tune each other out, and stop trying to find common ground. It's just wrong. If you want to solve a problem, you start by acknowledging the goals you have in common, and working towards those. Then you can come to agreements on the other stuff.
And so, if I expect my political leaders to act civilized, then I should, too.
DebateMe
I stand corected, the state as a whole stood up and said "NO MORE"
I too am an Independent.
Mark,
I fully agree with you on being respectful in our discourse. I try to be respectful of my philosophical “adversaries,” and even go so far as to refer to Ms. Evans as “sweetheart,” not to be condescending but being overly nice.
I do however; disagree on the approach of finding common ground and meeting somewhere in the middle. In the budget debate, if we follow that logic, all that results is more spending and taxing. It’s time to stop spending and reverse the drunken sailor spending spree the state has been on for ten or more years. If we followed the compromise road, it will be like a kid in math class coming up with an answer of “5,” the teacher saying the answer is “10,” so we’ll score the test saying the “right” answer is 7.5. Just like math class, there is a right answer and a bunch of wrong ones.
The right answer is if you are spending too much money, STOP! That also means the citizens of our state need to think of things like: “Wow, a train between LA and San Francisco would be real cool, BUT WE CAN’T AFFORD IT!”
The right answer also means keep your hands out of the boss’s pocket. I can’t vote myself more income to spend and neither should the legislature. Wake the hell up Sacramento! The party is over! We all have to deal with your hangover now.
I keep reading opinions like Ms. Evans saying “Oh, people are going to die, the state will burn up, etc. etc. etc. We all know that is a truck load of organic fertilizer. Keep the fire departments, loose midnight basketball programs in the inner city. Keep the police departments, loose the 6 figure retirement plans. Keep the roads in good shape, loose bi-lingual education in schools. Keep summer school, loose the program to pay people to babysit grandma (with zero abuse oversight).
NO NEW TAXES. Take the 1985 budget for every department in the state and do a straight line adjustment for inflation. Give the money to each department head and tell them the well is dry. Make it work. Privatize the prisons, cut ALL bi-lingual programs from education. Make it work.
Just an idea.
California is suffering the unintended consequences of the best of liberal thought and intentions. I know because I've been a long term voting Democrat. However it's now run the state's economy and finances into the ground.
I'd like to tell a story of when my daughter was about 7. We went to Tijuana as part of our vacation. She had saved all her birthday money, allowance etc. I think she had around 100 dollars. When she saw all the poor children begging, she thought she had to help them. She kept buying Chiclet gum and cheap necklaces. I tried to explain to her that while I admired her caring, that she could not help them all. She couldn't stop herself until all her money was gone. She was not so happy, when she had no money for the rest of our vacation. I could have given her more money, but she would not have learned from this experience. Today she is a responsible adult finishing her PH.D.
I think all of us, no matter how we are registered to vote, don't mind having programs to help others. However, Noreen; WE CANNOT SAVE THEM ALL! My daughter learned this leason at age 7, Noreen. Perhaps, I could take you to TJ with your savings so you too could learn this.
Maybe I need to clear something up. Calworks is welfare to work. You have to work. Yes they pay for my childcare while I am in school and while I work and they pay me 650 a month. But I have to work to be eligible. I work 20 hours a week, go to school full time, and raise 2 kids. I pay my own college tuition with scholarships and I use my income to pay my bills. I pay taxes. I am willing to pay more taxes and take deeper cuts. There needs to be reform to Calworks, as there are illegals and people who just came to our country on calworks. But I have been paying taxes since I was 15 and I am still paying taxes. I just lost my husband's income when he had a mental breakdown and left us. I will be on Calworks for a total of 3 years, where then I will have my Bachelors, what it takes to have a successful job. Being the first to graduate from college, but now not the last, as I am an example to my two young children that college is the way. So, I come from both sides, I collect welfare and I pay taxes. I believe it is necessary for both cuts and taxes. There has been a cut to the Calworks monthly grant I receive, I think it should be even deeper. But to cut Calworks all together, would mean we would lose federal funds. Furthermore, the families would go to their counties for support and slowly all of California's counties would become bankrupt. You think California is hurting now. By the way, I know a little about the Bohemian Grove and the Boho's. Yes they are so smart for always keeping us looking the other way as Grayhair says. Notice, we are always arguing about something and not worrying about their errors and control over us.
"NO NEW TAXES. Take the 1985 budget for every department in the state and do a straight line adjustment for inflation. Give the money to each department head and tell them the well is dry. Make it work. Privatize the prisons, cut ALL bi-lingual programs from education. Make it work."
Exactly right. THough Im not even sure you ahve to go that far back. 1999 might do it.
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